there, i said it! "what IS the deal?". i gave up on the PC mac debate a while ago, previously i was always up for the fight. but having used both systems extensively over the last 6 months, there is just no reason to argue. i use both, i design for both, i prefer a pc. they both can do the same things now. they both have their issues. there is no such thing as 'just plug it in and it works'. case in point, my gf's brand new g4. not a single thing we plugged into that thing, except for the keyboard and mouse, laoded right up with a whole lot of fighting. (moot point but i plugged the same devices into my laptop to see if the devices were broken, they both came up instantly). both machines are in the same boat now with the exception that one is unix and one is windows and of course unix can do things windows can't and vise versa.

having said that. what is the deal. i was at a bar last night with an old friend, hadn't seen him in a year, and he begins to argue with me out of the blue about how he can't imagine why i'm on a pc and how he can do so much more with a g5 he wants to get (mind you, he is a sculpter and has no need for it). i try to tell him 'look, i wont argue with you, to each his own i've used both i prefer the pc. i just do'. he doesn't let it , and he continues to argue with me. it takes me 5 minutes to end the convo.

we slide down the table to a friend of his who allegedly is a graphic designer. jay and i talk about this zine i used to run and i mention how i didn't know enough about the web back then to get it to work on a mac. this guy out of the blue starts flipping out about how safari is the most superior browser on the planet and how nothing works right unless its on a mac. i try to tell him calmly over and over how from the start of the conversation i agreed with him on something about how safari treats code. but he just doens't get it. he doesn't even listen to me, and he goes on and on about how safari is so beyond its time regardless that he began by talking about how nazi safari is on its code. (i say if you can screw up coding on IE, and it still figures out how to display the page properly, that has to be a testiment to the browser's design. but nobody seems to get that. anyway..) it takes me 5 minutes to calm the guy down, and he begins to ignore me completeley as i talk to jay. then i mention to jay how i also didn't make the graphics right for a mac. the guy turns around sharply again and goes off again. 'what do you mean the graphics wouldn't work right on a mac?' i calmly and slowely explain to him that i didn't know enough about clean coding and making graphics for the web to make a sliced up image display its table properly on the different platform.

this is a phenominum i've only ever ecountered with apple users. if you attempt to point out a limitation on their machine they jump all over you. they refuse to listen to anything you say when you might be blatently correct. however if you mention something baout what a PC can't do, its all 'thats because microsoft sucks and its all corporate money grubbing'.

furthermore, they pick a fight with you when you arn't even contrasting the two. in this case i was talking about how i was a young programmer and didn't know enough about the web to make things look good on both machines, and they argued with me it was the equipment i was using.

i have never come across a pc person who out of the blue flies off the handle about their machine. however every single mac user i've met has tried to fight me.

a good friend of mine recently moved from a pc to a mac because of the changes panther brought baout on the apple. he still keeps an open mind about what both can do.

i am a graphic designer.. i think if i can design on a pc, take it to press and have a flawless product without any conmversion of layout, color, or type, then i just might know what i'm talking about. but they never care. professors, friends, my boss at work. they still tell me if i ever want to go anywhere i need to be on a mac. its just bull.
[Message Edited]
Comments (Page 6)
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on Apr 21, 2004
(sigh)
on Apr 22, 2004
and anyone who doesn''''t want to be a lemming


It''d be nice if people refrained from such facile comments...from either ''side''...
on Apr 22, 2004
Same people same bigotry.

This is an overdone subject and exceedingly tedious
on Apr 22, 2004
Douglas Engelbart

Quote(MSNBC),

"in 1984, Apple put many of Engelbart''''s ideas, the mouse, the windows — into its new Macintosh.

“It seemed to me it was pretty good, because no one had come up with something that was more generally usable,” Engelbart says. But he still found it “terribly restrictive,” like trying to communicate in pidgin English, even after a Redmond, Wash., software maker took the idea and put it on most of the world''''s remaining computers.

All the while, Engelbart worked to advance the concept of hypertext — linking between and within documents — and to build out the ARPANet, the Internet’s precursor."

So there really is no hoopla, since both the Mac and PC have the same origin.
How they diverged over the years is pretty cool, but my friends who own Apples don''t really care what computer I use or knock down PC users, and I''m more interested in seeing what Apples can do, rather than looking for an emotional tampon. Because there are somethings Apples can do I wish I could and vice versa. But that line is getting thinner and thinner until it will soon disappear.

Most of the time our Pub debates centers around when Father Unix is going to spank baby Linux

[Message Edited]
on Apr 22, 2004
emotional tampon.




weren''t we talking about mayonayse now?

macro''s right about one thing.. the percentage is on its way up. fast. if i can remember where i got the figrues i''ll post them, but the ratio was something like 200% more computers sold in the last year than the entire previous ten years, and that was BEFORE the g5. with the software cross platform, the new operating systems (oSx and winxp) existing together in perfect harmony, you will so much more choice happening. hell even linux is getting a bigger market share amoung individual users (its still cheaper for corporations to run windows) because so many common programs are comming out for that platform. when they put adobe on linux machines, i''ll be there. but its on the rise, no doubt about that.
on Apr 22, 2004
now i have no preferance over mac or pc .. but i have noticed there are many on both sides who seem to think a computer is a status symbol,and constantly belittle those in the other side ....it''s just another form of social postureing ... little people useing inatimate objects to raise their lack of self worth . sad part is they actually believe that they can BEAT you in to submission .
on Apr 22, 2004
HG_ Eliminator nails it!
on Apr 22, 2004

HG_E ''almost'' nails it....

preference

posturing

using

inanimate

into....

Spell checker
on Apr 22, 2004
yes !!!!! i am still the typo king !!!!!!!!! woohoooo

[Message Edited]
on Apr 22, 2004
Faster than a speeding 486DX.
More powerful than a lightbright.
Able to leap tall blades of grass in a single bound.
Look, up in the sky! It’s a moose! It’s a turkey! It’s Typoman!
Yes, it’s Typoman, strange visitor from another website who came to WC. with spelling abilities far below those of mortal men.
Typoman, who can change the course of mighty conversations, bend sentences with his bare hands, and who, disguised as HG_Eliminator, mild mannered porter for a great internet skinning site, fights a never-ending battle for pizza, pepsi and the mispelling of simple words......



[Message Edited]
on Apr 22, 2004
hehe. yo''re way too much, man more powerul than a lightbrite..haha
status symbol? of course it is...
rollerblades or skateboard?

just kidding.





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on Apr 22, 2004
Well, frankly, I have nothing against the fact that Apple or Linux gains or loses some user base, as long as they stay as compatible as possible with the rest of the world. I earn my living building web site and designing corporate/promotional CD''s. I don''t have a Mac, I don''t want a Mac I don''t have Linux (anymore) either. I do my best to test my sites with IE and Netscape, but I am not about to test it on a Mac just to see if Safari displays my site well. Certainly not for free anyway.
Heck, just last week, my client was trying to see the web site I am building for him, and it''s not working. I have no clue what the problem is. So I asked him if he wanted me to spend time trying to find the bug - and bill him for that time. Because realistically speaking, almost none of his potential clients will be on the Mac plateform. So is it worth the time and the extra expense? Almost none of my clients ever answer affirmative. 
So, if you want to think different, don''t come cry that things don''t work right on a Mac.
on Apr 23, 2004
Here''s what I think. I think it is out of hand to call someone who uses a PC a lemming because they chose to use one instead of a Mac and not nessasarily true. Same goes for someone thinking that because someone chose a Mac that means they are a stuck up snob. There are a lot of PC users who got their PCs not because others did but because that''s what they wanted to buy. And I know Mac users who don''''t think they are better than everyone else and don''''t bash their choice over other peoples heads.

I myself like both Macs and PC but truth be told there are some better features in OSX''s GUI that can''t be easily reproduced on the PC at the moment.

The major things that Macs have going for them over the PC is they have better looking hardware and better settings out of the box. Better settings out of the box has helped them a lot in the past especially getting a foothold into graphic design because you get color management, etc. right out of the box.

However, especially lately putting an artist on a mac doesn''''t guarantee that they would make better art than someone on a PC. I firmly believe that it''''s not the tools that make the artist it''''s the artists skill.

Also if you do a piece of art, identicle on both a mac and a PC how is one to know that you used a mac or a PC in it''''s production unless you told them? In this case it all boils down to personal preference.

However if there is a lack of good applications to do a certian thing on a certain computer then you have to get the one that has your killer apps. This could go either way mac or Pc or whatever.

Oh BTW, I think the whole which computer has more games and thus is more worth using is kind of irrelivant at the moment. Why? Because lately games even for the PC have been sort of dwindling (though recently it seems to have picked up a bit). Because a lot of companies just see more $$$ when making games for consoles. Not because a computer can''''t handle games, but because more people are willing to get a console to hook to a TV than spend 2 grand at least for a decent gaming computer which the probably don''''t understand as well.

Anyway I''''ve kind of strayed off topic a bit here. I''''ve gotten worn out by the whole this versus that stuff. A lot of times i the past I have gotten on the side of the thing that I think is getting the bum rep which could be either depending on the situation. But it''''s just a waste of time and energy when it comes to certain people as they will never listen.

That being said, when I can afford it I will probably buy a Mac as well as a PC. Because I think they are nice machines.

BTW, my current PC has lasted me for more than 3 years because of upgrades and things like that. And the PC before that the same.
[Message Edited]
on Apr 23, 2004
I firmly believe that it''''''''s not the tools that make the artist it''''''''s the artists skill.

A truer word hath not been spake....

on Apr 23, 2004
My dad still claims the DEC mainframe/file cabinet he used back in the 80''s could multi-task better then any modern computer. But then, he also misses Wordperfect 3.1 for DOS.
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