there, i said it! "what IS the deal?". i gave up on the PC mac debate a while ago, previously i was always up for the fight. but having used both systems extensively over the last 6 months, there is just no reason to argue. i use both, i design for both, i prefer a pc. they both can do the same things now. they both have their issues. there is no such thing as 'just plug it in and it works'. case in point, my gf's brand new g4. not a single thing we plugged into that thing, except for the keyboard and mouse, laoded right up with a whole lot of fighting. (moot point but i plugged the same devices into my laptop to see if the devices were broken, they both came up instantly). both machines are in the same boat now with the exception that one is unix and one is windows and of course unix can do things windows can't and vise versa.

having said that. what is the deal. i was at a bar last night with an old friend, hadn't seen him in a year, and he begins to argue with me out of the blue about how he can't imagine why i'm on a pc and how he can do so much more with a g5 he wants to get (mind you, he is a sculpter and has no need for it). i try to tell him 'look, i wont argue with you, to each his own i've used both i prefer the pc. i just do'. he doesn't let it , and he continues to argue with me. it takes me 5 minutes to end the convo.

we slide down the table to a friend of his who allegedly is a graphic designer. jay and i talk about this zine i used to run and i mention how i didn't know enough about the web back then to get it to work on a mac. this guy out of the blue starts flipping out about how safari is the most superior browser on the planet and how nothing works right unless its on a mac. i try to tell him calmly over and over how from the start of the conversation i agreed with him on something about how safari treats code. but he just doens't get it. he doesn't even listen to me, and he goes on and on about how safari is so beyond its time regardless that he began by talking about how nazi safari is on its code. (i say if you can screw up coding on IE, and it still figures out how to display the page properly, that has to be a testiment to the browser's design. but nobody seems to get that. anyway..) it takes me 5 minutes to calm the guy down, and he begins to ignore me completeley as i talk to jay. then i mention to jay how i also didn't make the graphics right for a mac. the guy turns around sharply again and goes off again. 'what do you mean the graphics wouldn't work right on a mac?' i calmly and slowely explain to him that i didn't know enough about clean coding and making graphics for the web to make a sliced up image display its table properly on the different platform.

this is a phenominum i've only ever ecountered with apple users. if you attempt to point out a limitation on their machine they jump all over you. they refuse to listen to anything you say when you might be blatently correct. however if you mention something baout what a PC can't do, its all 'thats because microsoft sucks and its all corporate money grubbing'.

furthermore, they pick a fight with you when you arn't even contrasting the two. in this case i was talking about how i was a young programmer and didn't know enough about the web to make things look good on both machines, and they argued with me it was the equipment i was using.

i have never come across a pc person who out of the blue flies off the handle about their machine. however every single mac user i've met has tried to fight me.

a good friend of mine recently moved from a pc to a mac because of the changes panther brought baout on the apple. he still keeps an open mind about what both can do.

i am a graphic designer.. i think if i can design on a pc, take it to press and have a flawless product without any conmversion of layout, color, or type, then i just might know what i'm talking about. but they never care. professors, friends, my boss at work. they still tell me if i ever want to go anywhere i need to be on a mac. its just bull.
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Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 18, 2004
Each time I have to use mac I always has some kind of problem. Granted, it's nothing major, but I noticed that I prefer PCs after Macs.

Only mac I liked was those old mac with black and white 5 in screen with those physics program. I always played with that physics program back then.
on Apr 18, 2004
He castes his line....slowly he reels it in. A ray of light works its way through the murky depths and castes, ever so slight, a shimmer of reflection off of his lure...just enough of a flicker to alert the senses of....
on Apr 18, 2004
I definitely agree that both platforms have their own strengths and weaknesses. I use both at work. There are some graphics applications that Macs process more efficiently. I think that years ago Macs were definitely the superior machine. Microsoft developed Windows to make a PC handle more like a Mac, but the Macs still processed graphics files more efficiently, whereas Windows had to do a kind of work-around to achieve the same effects. This meant that a PC needed a lot more computing power to give the same result. In the last 15 years PC compputing speed has grown by leaps and bounds and Microsoft has been able to fine tune their processes to make them faster to the end now that there isn't that much appreciable difference between the two. I used to be firmly in the Mac camp but now I find PC much easier to use for most things, although I think it's good for someone to give Microsquish a little competition.
on Apr 18, 2004
can anyone tell me the link to use the skins on my desktops .Thanks for any helpMy email-address is Email


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on Apr 18, 2004
to be honest,i couldnt care what kind of computer someone has. to each his own. as long as your happy with it ,that all that counts .there will always be hocky pucks in life who feel the need to push their opinions on others ..this is like the old ford VS. chevy debate..theres strong believers on both sides ..
me? i couldnt give a crap wether it was a ford or chevy as long as it runs and gets me where i need to go. lifes to short for stupid debates and anger over such trivial persuits ..... why not debate the best way to cure world hunger at least then it would be for a worthy task ....
[Message Edited]
on Apr 18, 2004
I agree. I don't like mac due to experience, but I don't try to harass mac users to change camp to PC.

I got harassed by mac users once or 2 times so far.
on Apr 18, 2004
the most common thing i hear, being in the graphics industry of course, is that macs will handle graphics better. i suppose that might be true on the cache level... but while one car might be faster then the other with the same engine because of the way the transmission is designed, i have basically the same hardware as my gf's dual g4... we both have 128 meg radeons and a gig of memory, and my athlon xp 1.5 works a whole lot faster in processing large photoshop images. so i just havn't seen the the performance everyone keeps telling me about. not that i'll deny the power is there, but its so frustrating to have my PROFESSORS at school dogging me and teasing me because im in a mac computer lab working on my hp laptop.. telling me everytime some silly little error comes up that its because i have a pc.. telling me that my PC can't handle design. it just doesn't make sense.. they don't have autocad on apple machines for a reason.. why should illustrator work better on a mac? its things like that and the constant dogging i get that makes me say.. close mindedness? i want to tell them 'just accept that it works better for me than a mac ever did and leave it at that. '

i'm thrilled to hear maro uses both and he prefers the imac.. but in what i do i can't get the job done on the 1100$ ibook (my gf bought it the other day) whilst my 1300$ hp laptop runs a wicked adobe suite with room to spare. as for quality/longevity, macro, haha there is indeed a difference between the 400$ dell and a multi-thousand$ computer.. but even the higher end dells, which we have in our single pc lab at school, are workhorses that will last a long time and didn't cost more than 1.5k a pop. even at that, my 400mhz celeron HP pavilion from '98 is till fiesty as ever..there is no breaking down there so i don't believe longevity is an arguement at all, as long as the person isn't beating on it with a hammer.



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on Apr 18, 2004
games are comming out more and more on mac platform now.. NWN and unreal for example..and im thrilled NWN is now out on apple, means i can play with the rest of my friends. more apple computers were sold in the last two years then were in the last TEN years put together. expect to see even more programs for that OS, along with more and more cross platform compatability. its sucha nice feeling to be able to take an AI9 file to a mac without any conversion issues, or save a word document and bring it up without any issues. im in a mostly adobe/macromedia/office world and never run into problems.



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on Apr 18, 2004
...very rarely [never] have I witnessed a PC user strike up a conversation with a MAC user, saying: "You use a MAC?! muahaha, what, are you retarded or something?"....

But it seems from my experience [keep in mind, I said MY experience] the opposite *does* occur, more frequently than most would admit. I'm with DesignCaddy on this.
on Apr 18, 2004
Mac users are such a small minority you can safely ignore them
on Apr 18, 2004
Actually spiderbyte, almost every PC user I've encountered that found out that I've got a mac started up an ignorant one sided debate about how macs suck. PC users are just as protective of their computers than mac users are, and despite mac users being a minority, you can't just ignore them, because depite the fact that mac users have 3% market share, they make up about 20% of the computers that are in use today

When people use that 3% figure, they don't realize that that is in terms of computers sold that year. Obviously people buy PCs more often than macs because macs last longer. While the avg PC life would be about 2 years, the avg mac life is probably 5 years.
on Apr 18, 2004

3% market share, they make up about 20% of the computers that are in use today

Curious statistic there.....particularly if it has anything to do with the second comment...that a Mac averages 5 years to a PC's 2.

I'm sure these two equations can be solved....and the variables....x Macs and Y PCs will yield an amusing result....

on Apr 19, 2004
maybe they buy pc's more often because they cost less. hell i'm just teasing again.. they all use the same hardware nowadays, as i said. one therefore shouldn't live any longer then the other.

as long as the person isn't beating on it with a hammer.


i won't accept a pc only averages 2 years.. people might want to replace/upgrade them after that time, but sorry, with that hp of mine still kickin and my athlon going on 2 years now without a glitch, and with all the computers i see in my office, as much as they get beat on we still have machines in there going on 4 years. now one of our it guys has an imac he just upgraded to a g3 which was a pretty slick move, and now he's going to try to move it to g4. thats an old machine he's had since 97 or 98. alternatively i just gutted a 486 case and ped in a new athlon 3800, whole new system.
on Apr 19, 2004
My computer is 4 years old, with last major upgrade over 2 years ago. The last computer lived to be bit under 9 years.
on Apr 19, 2004
Background....
Part of the business my Dad-inlaw does is refurbish computers for resale/recycle parts for cash. The computer equipment is donated/tax written-off by various businesses around the state. He determines what's useable and what's recycled and he get paid in computer equipment or a comission on higher ticket items that he acts as a salesperson for, the sale of which pays the payroll of the folks sorting the recycle stuff, unloading/loading trucks, etc. He also refurbishes some product that is then given to elderly people, schools, etc. It's not just computers, it's laser printers, server towers, etc. and the occassional mac.

My point....
He sees quite a few tractor trailer loads of equipment each week and in the current cycle of things, the P2-350 to P3-500 is the era of PC that is being replaced by businesses. I think this puts the average age of what's being replaced a little further out than 2-years. Add to that, because not everyone can afford even a Dell, an extension in life for all the PC's he refurbishes and resells at the computer shows.

And the occassional Mac....about 1 to every 10-15 trailer loads of pc's....not sure how that equates to 20 percent or even 3 percent
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